Being an International Student: An interview with Francesca Gottardi

International Student Emergency Fund

The interview with Francesca Gottardi was conducted on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 @ 10:00 a.m. via Google Meets.

Hello reader! My name is Lia Cavalaris and I am a UC DAAP intern with Heartfelt Tidbits.

I had the joy of interviewing Francesca Gottardi. She is an international student who is presently a J.D. Candidate at the College of Law and Ph.D. Student at the Department of Political Science, both of which are located at the University of Cincinnati. Her focuses and research are on international law, European Union law, American law, international human rights, and Indigenous rights.

Interviewing her was an inspiration to me, and I feel it will be an inspiration to many others as well. She drew light to many of the experiences that international students may face while studying during this time, but also in general.

Though presently financing her education has become increasingly difficult due to COVID-19, she is highly motivated to push forward through her academics regardless of the heightened pressures. Please consider donating to our International Student Emergency Fund upon reading this interview, to assist her and students like her in their academic careers.

Lia Cavalaris: Firstly, I would like to ask you to introduce yourself, what you are presently pursuing in your coursework, what some of your passions are regarding your career, and how they may intersect

Francesca Gottardi: Absolutely, so my name is Francesca Gottardi, I am 28 years old, and I am originally from Italy. I was born and raised in Italy, this is where I graduated in 2016 with a degree in European law and international law. After that I came to the U.S. I am here pursuing a dual degree, a J.D. (Juris Doctor degree) and a Ph.D. in Poly Sci, I am currently a 3rd year student. Some of my interests are international law, international human rights, Indigenous rights, and how these 3 areas of law interact and overlap. So, this is what my research is currently focusing on. Both at the Ph.D. and with the J.D. side of things.

L: Awesome! I am curious, what made you decide to pursue further education outside of Italy? And how has that affected your studies?

F: So, while pursuing my law school degree in Italy, I pretty quickly realized that I was very interested in the international aspect of the law. How the law interacted, not only on a national level, but on an international one. I majored in European and international law already as a part of my Italian J.D., and then when I graduated in 2016, I worked for the European Union for about a year. It is there that my interest in everything that is cross-cultural and international deepened. I made the decision to come to the U.S. because I felt I had a strong background in the civil law system, which is what most European countries have as a legal system, and what is predominantly used in some pockets of Africa, South America, and Asia. But really the civil law system is only one of the two major legal systems. I was well versed in the civil law, but I was not as comfortable navigating the common legal system, which is the other big legal system worldwide. And so I decided to come to the US to pursue further education and develop expertise in the common law, as well as in the civil law. And this was driven by my motivation of ultimately becoming an international lawyer. And so, I feel that to be a very effective international legal practitioner, you really need to be well versed in both systems.

L: Yea, absolutely! That’s awesome. So it’s a very unique experience, do you find that a lot of people go down that route of studying law here to get both those experiences if they are practicing international law?

F: No, I don’t think so. Or at least, I don’t know of very many people who not only gain a J.D. in Europe or in a civil law country and then decided to pursue an entire J.D. in the US or in the common law as well. Many, me included at first, usually do get a J.D. in Europe, for example, and then come to the US to pursue and LL. M. (The Master of Laws) which is a one-year program that gives you part of that expertise. It mainly allows you to sit for the BAR here in the US. So at first, I came here to pursue an LL. M., but then after completing that year, things were going really well! ­The Law School (of University of Cincinnati) just opened a program that allowed LL.M. students to transfer to the J.D. program. I had been very successful in completing my LL. M. year, so the Law School was very excited to have me in the first cohort that transitioned to the J.D. program.

L: Ah!

F: So, I embarked in the whole thing! After completing one year of LL. M., I am currently also doing the full J.D. program.

There are several reasons I don’t think it is a really common path. First of all, it is really long.

L: Yeah!

F: So it’s a long journey! I graduated Law School in 2016. I already had at that point 6 years of higher education under my belt, and then coming here and deciding to do the full thing again. So, not only completely the full year of LL. M. but then the 3 years of law school all over again!

L: Yeah (Laughs).

F: So, it’s like doing law school twice. It’s hard and it’s time consuming. It is quite expensive in the U.S, and not necessarily easier to be admitted to a law school as well. So, there are various reasons why I think this may not be a common path.

L: It’s giving you such a unique experience though; I can imagine it’s going to only help further yourself and your career. Giving you a broader understanding of things, It seems like it was a good move. I am that way too, you dedicate yourself to do something, then you do it thoroughly and you do it right!

F: Yeah! Exactly. And you know, ultimately what helped my case is that I am really passionate about my studies and my research. So, there is that inner motivation that really just pulls me through obstacles and the difficulties, which there are many, but I hope this will put me in a good place or situate me well once I am done with my degrees. This unique expertise in both arenas, both in the common law and civil law, and also being able to communicate by speaking various languages, will assist me in being able to interact with a diverse population.

L: Yes! You’re motivating me, this is wonderful. I love hearing people speak about things they are passionate about. I feel it really shows in the work as well! If you are not passionate about what you are pursuing or doing, then it definitely effects the work you are doing.


F: Absolutely! Both in the quality, but also the grit that it takes.

L: Agreed!

F: When the umpteenth difficulty and challenge comes to present itself, you know if you don’t have that grit and that motivation, you just give up. And sometimes it is hard to just pull through and push through.

L: But you get stronger each time!


F: Yeah! Yes.

L: It’s like weight training.

F: (Laughs) Yeah, I like to think that!

L: So, I am curious with COVID-19 happening, which I hate to bring it up since it is already at the forefront of most of our minds, but I am wondering how this has impacted your studies? Especially with being an international student.

F: Well actually Lia, I am very glad you asked because as international students, I feel we are especially impacted by this current situation. Personally, I have been impacted under several points. Firstly, when COVID-19 hit I lost my ability to access my office at Crosley Tower (at the University of Cincinnati). At that point, I was living with a host family, so my office was a very important place for me to study and to interact with my peers. Losing that was quite hard. And again, I was living with a host family, they are middle aged people. With me still going in and out of work, it became dangerous for me to live with them. Especially at the beginning, we didn’t really know what it was all about, or how to prevent it. So, I lost a place to stay. And I bounced from one place to another for about 3 months until I was able to find a new place to stay. And it impacted me in that my job was affected. It was a transition, so I was not able to fulfill my job as I was used to. But also, for international students, there is the issue that the boarders are closed. So, when that happened back at the beginning of the pandemic, I was faced with the impossibility to return home.

L: Right, especially in Italy during that time.

F: Yes, especially in Italy. Because back then Italy was really-really heavily affected. So, I couldn’t go back home. Both because there was COVID hitting hard, but also because if I were to go back home, and this is still true today, I would not be able to come back to the U.S. because I am not a citizen, I am not a permanent resident, and I am here under an F1 visa (student visa). And so currently, borders are closed for those who are not citizens or permanent residents. I wouldn’t be able to come back. And you understand that I have a lot at stake here, so I cant just not come back!

L: Yes.

F: But also, you know to date, I have not seen my family and friends in a while, a year for my close family and 2 years for many of my friends and other family. So, I am facing now another year without seeing them. This is very difficult, and also when the pandemic hit and my job was affected, my studies were affected, my housing situation was affected, I didn’t have that support system. And so, I am not going to lie it was very challenging. Again, here is why I need to constantly remind myself why I am here, and why it is so important for me to be here and to push through, otherwise this would be very hard. And as a last example as the sacrifice that it takes to be here, especially during COVID, two of my closest friends got married in these couple of weeks and I was supposed to be the maid of honor in one of these weddings. For me it was so difficult. And that’s when I start thinking, “Gosh I am sacrificing a lot with losing these moments”, “Why am I doing it?”, “Is it really worth it?”. And yes, it is worth it for me, but it is challenging.

It is hard missing out on those things.

L: Mhm. Absolutely. It’s the importance of human connectivity! It is super difficult thinking of how we are disconnected during this time. It is challenging us to pay extra attention and to understand how important connections, interactions, friends and family, all these things are. It is harkening us back to remember at the core of all human beings is this need for connecting with one another.

F: Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. Especially as human beings, we need that meaningful connection. I consider myself to be an extroverted person, so I really thrive in a context where I interact with other people. So, having that taken away can become difficult. This situation also brings out the best in us, I have seen so many efforts by people to have those meaningful connections in other ways, like what you and I are doing right now. And in many other events organized remotely, or for instance in the case of my best friend’s wedding, I ended up being connected remotely the entire time. So there are positive aspects to it, and in facing the challenge together, but it is nonetheless a challenge.

L: I definitely agree with that as well. It certainly has been a display of how we create ways to maintain connection and help each other. I have seen a lot of that, and I feel like it may have rekindled something within many people. Funnily enough, life felt more separated at points before this epidemic. Because now, during it, we can see the connections being made, the kindness, and efforts during this period of upheaval. You get a bit of both.

F: It was very heartwarming to see all these crowdfunding initiatives, to see people raising money for hospitals and people in need, so again, that was something in a way that was unexpected, but it was a beautiful surprise to see the best in us coming out.

L: It shows the power of us and community!

F: Yes!

L: That we can help each other and make life better for each other.

F: Absolutely.

L: Continuing down the path of speaking about these changes that are happening and what it is like being an international student, I am curious to hear about what changes you might like to see moving forward for international students in higher education. But also, if there are any general things in upper education that you might like to see change or take a different form.

F: I am very content with how higher education works here in the U.S., it is of an extremely high quality and there are really a lot of opportunities, but what I do see as an issue for international students is are those barriers in accessing it. Let me explain this better, it is difficult for international students who often times come from backgrounds where education is structured differently, where education is oftentimes more accessible in terms of finances. The mere fact that it is so expensive, which is not something an international student may be used to, and it is oftentimes not something that the system here accommodates very well for international students that, for instance, do not have access to federal loans. So that’s one. And then the second is to make it more accessible not only in terms of financial barriers, but also in terms of the paperwork needed and the difficulty to even immigrate here sometimes to study. So, to sum up I think it would be positive to see it changing towards the direction to where it is a more accessible system and one that is more open to diverse cultures, no matter the background of the individual might be. Although again, I personally am very content with the opportunities that I have had here, but it has still been difficult at times again as an international student navigating these entrance barriers. Entrance barriers and also visa related or immigration related barriers.

L: Yeah, because you are tackling like six different ends with the visa process, the finance process, among numerous other hoops. I feel like there definitely is a way to make this easier and more accessible and streamlined for people. I can imagine it just gets to be exceedingly complex the higher up you go in the system, it takes a trained brain to be able to navigate these complex situations, which it shouldn’t be that difficult to receive education.

F: Yeah, I do understand it is important for countries to have the need to protect their people, to foster safety within their borders. I do understand, but it is still extremely difficult for international students to navigate here and then to be able to set up a system to be able to afford education. Even some scholarships are admitted to only Americans or permanent residents, and so it’s difficult at times. Another barrier I see is that as an international student, my tuition fees are higher, I am not a Ohio resident I am not a US resident so I need to pay a considerable amount just for the fact that I am international. I don’t mean this to be a complaint but more so an opportunity to express the challenges that might be unique to international students.

L: I think it is important to bring light to those things, because I am also a student at UC and I  know how my tuition looks, and I have a friend who is an international student from China and she talks about her tuition rates and how much more expensive they are. And it was a total shock to me! I hadn’t realized it was that exponentially different. It is to a point where it is making it difficult for people to access this education, that is not fair to people. I think it is important to talk about these things.

F: Absolutely.

L: I feel like a lot of people aren’t aware I don’t think.

F: Yeah, I agree.

L: So, stepping away from education as an international person, I am interested to hear how being away from your birth home has shaped your views on “home”. Do you feel like you have multiple homes? Multiple spaces, like one in Italy and one in the US, or do you feel home will always be in Italy? How do you approach that?

F: This is a very interesting question; you see I have been living in the US for over 3 years now and I do feel at home here. At the end of the day, in the terms of education, my job, and where I see my future heading, it is here. And so, I do feel at home in the US, but I do still consider Italy home also. It was the place I was born and raised, it is where I grew up, and it is where my family and my friends are. So now, it feels like I am almost sitting between two chairs!

L: (Laughs).

F: And so, I have a home in Italy and also here. And I feel just as comfortable in both. Living here unlocked the possibility to have one more home on top of my Italian one. One more chair to have!

L: Yeah! Maybe you’ll have even more chairs in the future, a chair for a foot, another side, and another foot!

F: Yeah! And sometimes it does get confusing because when I go back home in Italy, you know I do feel at home, but also there are things in the US that pull me back. And those things are hard to share with my Italian friends and family. And so, I feel at home when in Italy, but I still feel that need to come back (to the U.S.). But it is the same thing for the U.S.! I feel at home but also like there is something that draws me back to Italy.

L: It really is split down the middle!

F: Yeah! That’s accurate.

L: Well, thank you for sharing such beautiful thoughtful conversation with me, it was such a joy to get to hear you speak!

F: Yes! Thank you for your time and thoughtful questions. And thank you for hearing my story­– I truly appreciate it!